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译诗求教: Topology
nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-05-18 13:12:57    Post subject: 译诗求教: Topology Reply with quote

Adam Dickinson
TOPOLOGY

Which of these are equivalent:

a cup with a handle,
a night of drinking,
a bloody nose?

Figures deform into each other
given certain assumptions.

A parasite can make a rat careless
in the proximity of cats.
Some lives require
more than one body.

Whose ends do decisions really serve?
Cat-shapes jump from the shadows.
All the vertices are even,
shock doesn’t depend on what’s new.

A CAT scan may contain
as little as four different colours
so that no regions touching are alike.

Imagine a bottle that has no inside,
a hole through a hole.

We can change shape as much
as we like.
The arc of a haymaker,
a hairline;
the new things that resemble
the old things that remain.

拓扑
亚当.狄金森

以下哪些等价:

带把的杯,
漫饮的夜,
流血的鼻?

在某些假设下
图形彼此演化。

寄生虫会使老鼠
在猫旁失去警惕。
一些生命需要
不止一个身体。

决定究竟为谁作?
猫形跳出阴影。
所有点都相等,
震惊不依赖近况。

CAT的透视胶片
只用四种颜色
就能区分相邻区域。

想象一只中空的瓶,
一个洞穿过另一个。

我们可任意
变换形状。
一记重拳的弧圈,
一条发际线;
一些仿效着
不变旧物的新物。
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-05-18 13:15:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

这是我为第五期翻译的诗。虽然图论较熟悉,但对此诗理解不好。
下的功夫也不够。先粗译出来,参考大家意见再改。谢谢。
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Lake
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PostPosted: 2008-05-20 08:53:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, can't help.

对不起,最近没心情。
而且也不懂Top 是什么。 自力更生吧。唉。
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-05-20 10:12:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

没关系。谢谢lake. 最近到处都在地震。。。
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钓月
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PostPosted: 2008-05-22 01:31:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody,意思出来了!
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-05-22 08:35:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

谢谢钓月。
还差很远,有空会下点功夫重新弄一下。逻辑还没有理清楚,因此没有整体感和不够准确。多指点。
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-06-04 22:48:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

刚找老外聊了一小时,他也理解不好。但至少把字面上的错误纠正了很多。
重新译过了。咳,惨不忍睹。

也不明白诗人在讲什么。没法流畅。感觉上,他在用metaphor讲述生命课题。。。
找不到作者的Email,否则可以问一下。。。
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Lake
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PostPosted: 2008-06-10 10:47:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate leaving things unfinished.

所以,又回来了。个人感觉,这次一些英文诗歌是不好理解。拿给老外读,也不见得都读得懂。我有一个问题问他们,他们倒干脆 " I've no idea". 因此,译成这样就不错了。

译文很简洁,无剔可挑。非要说点儿什么的话,有一个词' a hairline' (你的翻译"一条裂隙 "也不能说是不对),我可能会译成 “发际线”.。第一感觉而已。
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-06-10 19:29:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

多谢lake Very Happy Very Happy
就是啊,不好理解。也联系不到作者。
hairline上次是译成发际线的,可是老外建议我译成现在的样子。说是跟打击相关。看他说的头头是道的,就信了。
很多东西译不出来。如cat = 猫,CAT = CT机。A CAT scan 既是CT机的扫描,也是猫(对老鼠)的觊觎。可以考虑加注释。
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Lake
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PostPosted: 2008-06-11 11:51:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

唉,是挺麻烦。 除了多义词, 还有大猫,小猫的。 Confused
倒是弄懂了你把'hairline'译成"裂隙"的原因了,跟打击'haymaker'相关。我把“发际线”和'arc' 相关上了, 都是弧线形。 Laughing

能自圆其说就行了,我看。
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kino
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PostPosted: 2008-06-15 06:53:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

这首诗真的很麻烦,有点在玩语言游戏。中间有些地方也不太明白,草译了一下,大家继续讨论:

TOPOLOGY
拓扑

Which of these are equivalent:
下列哪些东西是等同的:
(equivalent,可以说等值,等价,等效,不好说具体是什么,干脆来个“等同”)

a cup with a handle,
a night of drinking,
a bloody nose?
一个带把的水杯
一夜豪饮
流血的鼻子

Figures deform into each other
given certain assumptions.
在特定的假设下
外形可以彼此转化

A parasite can make a rat careless
in the proximity of cats.
Some lives require
more than one body.
一个寄生虫可使老鼠
对周围的那些猫毫不在意
一些生命需要
更多的肉体 (这段不明白跟topology有什么关系)

Whose ends do decisions really serve?
Cat-shapes jump from the shadows. (shadows: The darkness following sunset.)
All the vertices are even,
shock doesn’t depend on what’s new.
决定到底适合谁的目标?
猫样的东西从暮色里窜出。
所有的头顶都是一样平滑,
震惊并不依赖于新鲜。

A CAT scan may contain
as little as four different colours
so that no regions touching are alike.
一张CT透视胶片
只有四种色调
却能分清不同的区域。


Imagine a bottle that has no inside,
a hole through a hole.
想象一个没有内胆的瓶子
一个孔穿过另一个孔

We can change shape as much
as we like.
The arc of a haymaker,
a hairline;
the new things that resemble
the old things that remain.
我们可以随心所欲地
改变形状。
一记重拳的弧圈,
一条发际线;
摹写不变旧物的
新品
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Lake
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PostPosted: 2008-06-15 16:12:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which of these are equivalent:
下列哪些东西是等同的:
(equivalent,可以说等值,等价,等效,不好说具体是什么,干脆来个“等同”)


这个同意。我也曾对“等价”犯踌躇。

Some lives require
more than one body.


这里又一个劲地讲猫,到让我想起了传说中,a cat has nine lives.

Quote:
Imagine a bottle that has no inside,
a hole through a hole.
想象一个没有内胆的瓶子
一个孔穿过另一个孔


内胆,说的是热水瓶吗?

两个版本有意思。
Smile
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kino
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PostPosted: 2008-06-15 18:11:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

猫有九条命,却只有一个肉体。(或许可理解为诗意的一部分)?
另外,猫科动物都是色盲,与下面的 CAT scan有四种颜色,不知道有没有联系?

这个inside 也是故意要ambiguous, 我开始写的不是内胆,后来竟然成热水瓶了,不知道怎么回事。不过“中空”也不太好,好像在说瓶壁中空,那真成了保温壶了。我想要是没有瓶底,是不是就成了“a hole through a hole”了呢?

我自己那首也到现在还没搞明白。 Crying or Very sad
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-06-16 04:31:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

大力感谢两位的高论。提供了许多可借鉴的地方,容不才随后改进。

1. 此诗用数学图论讲事。在science领域, equivalent 大多译为等价。数学上,两个不同形状的图形可能为等价图。算是术语吧。哈哈。
2. 一个图形(figure,graph)由vertices 和 edges 组成。vertices 即是点的意思。
3. 一条发际线;
摹写不变旧物的
新品

倒是跟我第一个版本类似。哈哈。发际线解释过了。最后部分理解不好。刚开始理解为
我们可任意变换形状为, 1.一记重拳的弧线2.一条裂隙(一条发际线)3.摹写不变旧物的新品

可是又看到 , 和 ; 的使用,好像只指1和2, 没有3. 就改译成现在的样子糊弄了。完全不确定。

4. 四种颜色是基于数学上著名的“四色猜想”,即在平面地图上,最多只需要四种颜色就可以让相邻区域不同色。这猜想以被计算机证明。

--------------
也是受你们启发,我开始慢慢理解这首诗。数学上,很多图形虽然看起来不同,但其实等价。意指,同一生命,可有不同存在形式。不同形式互相转化。。。

再次感谢kino的版本,给了很多宝贵的参考,让我意识到自己版本中的很多不足。谢谢。
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kino
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PostPosted: 2008-06-16 05:52:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

原来这么多术语, Embarassed 数学我一窍不通阿,这回知道不学数学的坏处了——闹了笑话~~
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Lake
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PostPosted: 2008-06-16 06:50:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

科学诗。

我数学考试两次加起来60分。

Quote:
数学上,很多图形虽然看起来不同,但其实等价。意指,同一生命,可有不同存在形式。不同形式互相转化。。。


这个说得有道理。不过,还是别听我的。
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nobody
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PostPosted: 2008-06-16 09:44:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

你们俩可够谦虚的。
我是干这行吃饭的,一般差不多每次至少60分 Very Happy

两位给了很多借鉴,深表谢意。
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