 |
kokho
进士出身
注册时间: 2006-11-30
帖子: 2642
来自: Singapore
kokho北美枫文集 |
 发表于: 2007-05-17 09:16:16 发表主题: [Original Billingual Song] A Stone Guardian 《》 海滨守碑 |
 |
|
。 海滨守碑 A Stone Guardian
。 kokho 18／May／2007
是个黄昏 坚持和无奈 Another dusk; …persist without choice
是你我印在沙滩上的弯曲断续 A start-stop and winding trail we leave on the beach
晚风徐浪 等还扣着待 Night breeze ripples, a waiting delay,
扶你躺下在波涛鸥号等着星星 bracing you to rest 'midst a symphony of gulls and sea
所有奔波 无言和吞咽 Rushing about, mum and gulping,
历程和眼角干枯属于海边盐分 salty eyes … a journey too dry, an odyssey cry
谨存弥思 来去和左右 Lingering thoughts, swaying and passing,
在铁丝网外伸尽指头就能沾上 the dew resting amongst the leaves n twigs
自由摇摆 闪烁着曦光 bobbling freely, twinkling rays of dawn,
大树潇洒群叶上的露珠 within a finger's grasp beyond the fence
步步走来 说是对兄弟 Step by step, like brothers,
出家园的对视纵身跳板的紧握 glad eyes at onset, clasping … we plunge from the plank
餐有饭无 杯水互劝饮 A meal or missed, one drink shared around,
谁料一杯是一杯一回静一餐默 who foretells the next round of drinks, meal or silence
大海无边 潮汐一定回 Ocean boundless, tides never a' miss,
如果不再往前你一定要站这里 if you must stop, this is the stand you must insist,
一片大石 无需刻印记 A tall tombstone, no imprint needed,
因为你在回顾那些赶路和羡慕 'Cause you're looking back at the envied and late starter
一波抵岸 漫滩冒噫嘻 A wave arrives, bubbling froth a' shore,
你要守着授着去向讯息。。 You must receive and pass forth the bearing
。
。
_________________
乒乓、摄影、诗歌 |
|
| 返页首 |
|
 |
|
|
Lake
举人
注册时间: 2007-01-09
帖子: 1286
Lake北美枫文集 |
| 发表于: 2007-05-17 09:32:28 发表主题: |
|
|
先打印出来，带回去细读。
You know me, I am a rather slow reader... 
The English is much longer than the Chinese as what we all expected, but not too bad, not bad at all. 
_________________
the trouble with poetry is that it encourages the writing of more poetry -- Billy Collins |
|
| 返页首 |
|
|
|
|
kino
秀才
注册时间: 2006-12-23
帖子: 411
来自: beijing
kino北美枫文集 |
| 发表于: 2007-05-19 21:40:01 发表主题: |
|
|
| my footprint here, coming back soon. |
|
| 返页首 |
|
|
|
|
Lake
举人
注册时间: 2007-01-09
帖子: 1286
Lake北美枫文集 |
| 发表于: 2007-05-23 10:45:58 发表主题: Re: [Original Billingual Song] A Stone Guardian 《》 海滨守碑 |
|
|
| kokho 写到: |
。 海滨守碑 A Stone Guardian
。 kokho 18／May／2007
是个黄昏 坚持和无奈 Another dusk; …persist without choice
是你我印在沙滩上的弯曲断续 A start-stop and winding trail we leave on the beach
晚风徐浪 等还扣着待 Night breeze ripples, a waiting delay,
扶你躺下在波涛鸥号等着星星 bracing you to rest 'midst a symphony of gulls and sea
所有奔波 无言和吞咽 Rushing about, mum and gulping,
历程和眼角干枯属于海边盐分 salty eyes … a journey too dry, an odyssey cry
谨存弥思 来去和左右 Lingering thoughts, swaying and passing,
在铁丝网外伸尽指头就能沾上 the dew resting amongst the leaves n twigs
自由摇摆 闪烁着曦光 bobbling freely, twinkling rays of dawn,
大树潇洒群叶上的露珠 within a finger's grasp beyond the fence
步步走来 说是对兄弟 Step by step, like brothers,
出家园的对视纵身跳板的紧握 glad eyes at onset, clasping … we plunge from the plank
餐有饭无 杯水互劝饮 A meal or missed, one drink shared around,
谁料一杯是一杯一回静一餐默 who foretells the next round of drinks, meal or silence
大海无边 潮汐一定回 Ocean boundless, tides never a' miss,
如果不再往前你一定要站这里 if you must stop, this is the stand you must insist,
一片大石 无需刻印记 A tall tombstone, no imprint needed,
因为你在回顾那些赶路和羡慕 'Cause you're looking back at the envied and late starter
一波抵岸 漫滩冒噫嘻 A wave arrives, bubbling froth a' shore,
你要守着授着去向讯息。。 You must receive and pass forth the bearing
。 |
Hi Kokho,
Here are some of my thoughts about your poem (song) A Stone Guardian:
通常我读一首诗 （喜欢的，想读的）至少读三遍；第一遍通读，了解个大意；第二遍，解决一些难点词语或句子；第三遍，整首欣赏。所以我读的量少，回的帖也少。你这首我就不知读了N 遍了。
如你所说，这首双语诗歌极具挑战性，特别是将另类文字译成英文更难能可贵。看得出，作者是花了功夫，下了力气的，文字上都进行了仔细的推敲，好像是很难再动一字。
内容上：因为我是读的双语，在理解上可以在双语上互补。对英语是第一语言的读者来说，在诗后加些脚注或开头加个epigraph 是否会帮助他们加强理解呢？ 如同你再“酷我”回我的 haiku 《词宴》，加了脚注，对理解此诗帮助非常大。（当然有慧眼慧根的另当别论。）或者加个 Subtitle 帮助读者从中了解一些background info 或让读者从中发现写此诗的初衷？
题目：《海滨守碑》A Stone Guardian, is really a grabber, at least it grabs my eye immediately.
形式：gives a visual pleasure not only in Chinese but also in English. 反复读了几遍后，发现虽然英文稍长些（这是我们都预料到的），但句子的长短，全篇的安排和中文版是一致的。都是五个 stanza；句子都是一短一长（第二节的最后两行和结尾两行长短一致）相间。
字数，音节：作者遣词造句能力极强。中文每句字数为4，5，13 和10（最后两行和第二节最后两行），英文每行的音节大部分竟也与中文相对应（个别诗行有些出入）。
措辞，用字：更是煞费作者苦心。一是考虑到音节，二是如何将中文的意思用英文表达出来。中文的另类可以写成英文的另类吗？有很多可圈可点的地方，只举几个例：
等还扣着待 a waiting delay （a delayed waiting, a waiting delay, 我嘴里不停地倒换着这两个词，这种等待是不是很漫长？）
餐有饭无 A meal or missed （每天是有吃饭的时间，可是吃饭的时间可有饭吗？）
漫滩冒噫嘻 bubbling froth a' shore （噫嘻，古语，害我去查字典，是表感慨，悲痛，叹息的意思，译成冲到岸边的泡沫发出悲伤的叹息。）
（这些表达，我译不出。）
音，sound: a lot of rhyming and alliteration used, e.g.
we leave on the beach
a journey too dry, an odyssey cry
we plunge from the plank
and a lot of –ings, just to mention a few…
这些 internal rhymes, 读上去很有内部的韵律节奏感。
两个小问题：
1 在铁丝网外伸尽指头就能沾上within a finger's grasp beyond the fence
这里是“尽”还是“进”？如果是“进”，意味着把手指头伸进来就能沾上露珠；如果是“尽”，是不是伸尽了指头也没够上？那和“就能沾上”的意思就不一样了。而英文的意思比较清楚, 就差那么一点，almost; 那么“尽”就是用尽了力气也没达到？
2 谁料一杯是一杯一回静一餐默who foretells the next round of drinks, meal or silence
“谁料”我一般的理解是“哪知道”，“没想到”，“谁知道”，所以觉得 “who can foretell “ sounds better.
总之，这是一首难度较大的诗歌，需多读几遍才能品味，至少对我来说是这样。
_________________
the trouble with poetry is that it encourages the writing of more poetry -- Billy Collins |
|
| 返页首 |
|
|
|
|
kokho
进士出身
注册时间: 2006-11-30
帖子: 2642
来自: Singapore
kokho北美枫文集 |
| 发表于: 2007-05-23 23:48:06 发表主题: |
|
|
Dear Lake,
<1>I will be my great honour, if you post this on the website...
First of all, I am open minded, so if I am wrong, I am happy to change...
Second, for Our friend Mark and Kino to participate, you work has laid the foundation....
SO PLEASE DO POST IT AT THE WEB...
通常我读一首诗 （喜欢的，想读的）至少读三遍；第一遍通读，了解个大意；第二遍，解决一些难点词语或句子；第三遍，整首欣赏。所以我读的量少，回的帖也少。你这首我就不知读了 N 遍了。
<2> You are a very detail oriented person, I love you for that.
对英语是第一语言的读者来说，在诗后加些脚注或开头加个 epigraph 是否会帮助他们加强理解呢？
<3> What are the items I should incorporate in the proposed "prologue" ?
题目：《海滨守碑》A Stone Guardian, is really a grabber, at least it grabs my eye immediately.
<4> Thank you, I must say I am happy you enjoy my work... I was very sad the whole day when I pen this
therefor I seldom pen sad poem or text.
措辞，用字：更是煞费作者苦心。一是考虑到音节，二是如何将中文的意思用英文表达出来。中文的另类可以写成英文的另类吗？
<5> Thanks again, of all my bilingual works , this was the hardest!
中文的另类可以写成英文的另类吗？ I have been trying, but somehow, due the the concise grammar of English
something always fail to come through, especially the glitters...
等还扣着待 a waiting delay （a delayed waiting, 这种等待是不是很漫长？）
<6> I believe both are allow grammatically, where " a delayed waiting" is more conventional in day to day English.
But, do you think "a waiting delay " is more vague, and therefor more poetic an expression ?
The Chinese expression and English are not exactly the same, but while each carry itself in its cultural domain as
an interesting poetic expression, the imageries (形象s) applied are consistent and or compatible.
餐有饭无 A meal or missed （每天是有吃饭的时间，可是吃饭的时间可有饭吗？）
漫滩冒噫嘻 bubbling froth a' shore （噫嘻，古语，害我去查字典，是表感慨，悲痛，叹息的意思，译成冲到岸边的泡沫发出悲伤的叹息。）
<7> Same as <6> ... bubbling froth a' shore & Symphony of Gull and sea - For this two case English version have less
emotional expression or imagery (for the later the "stars" were a' missed ) - This is due to syllables are running short.
在铁丝网外伸尽指头就能沾上within a finger's grasp beyond the fence
这里是"尽"还是"进"？如果是"进"，意味着把手指头伸进来就能沾上露珠；而英文的意思, 就差那么一点，almost; 那么"尽"就是用尽了力气也没达到？
<8> This should be "尽", almost reach but never there, here the dew represent the "freedom", after so long a struggle, it is still 可望尤未可及。。。
谁料一杯是一杯一回静一餐默 who foretells the next round of drinks, meal or silence
"谁料"我一般的理解是"哪知道"，"没想到"，"谁知道"，所以觉得 "who can foretell " sounds better.
<9> "who can foretell " let me see, this may be beyond the allow syllables for the music, If I can make the song longer, I would
adopt your suggestion.... if you use "who can foretell " then you must add "the availability of" it is 9 syllables in total !!!
Now you know that, it is great fun of doing these bilingual poetry...
/Best Regards - Thanks for a nice discussion...
_________________
乒乓、摄影、诗歌 |
|
| 返页首 |
|
|
|
|
Lake
举人
注册时间: 2007-01-09
帖子: 1286
Lake北美枫文集 |
| 发表于: 2007-05-24 06:45:53 发表主题: |
|
|
| 引用: |
| <3> What are the items I should incorporate in the proposed "prologue" ? |
或者加个 Subtitle 帮助读者从中了解一些background info 或让读者从中发现写此诗的初衷？
| 引用: |
<6> I believe both are allow grammatically, where " a delayed waiting" is more conventional in day to day English.
But, do you think "a waiting delay " is more vague, and therefor more poetic an expression ? |
等还扣着待 a waiting delay （a delayed waiting, a waiting delay, 我嘴里不停地倒换着这两个词，这种等待是不是很漫长？）
I am not talking about grammar, but rather the way you put these two words together which rolled in my mouth and thus produced a feel of prolonged waiting.
| 引用: |
| <8> This should be "尽", almost reach but never there, here the dew represent the "freedom", after so long a struggle, it is still 可望尤未可及。。。 |
看看这样说我的意思会不会更清楚一些
这里是“尽”还是“进”？如果是“进”，意味着把手指头伸进来就能沾上露珠；如果是“尽”，是不是伸尽了指头也没够上？那和“就能沾上”的意思就不一样了。而英文的意思比较清楚, 就差那么一点，almost; 那么“尽”就是用尽了力气也没达到？
以上只是我的一点读后感，没有要作者修改的意思。
讲得比较浅，还需要其他人进一步从理论方面进行探讨。不点名了。。。
_________________
the trouble with poetry is that it encourages the writing of more poetry -- Billy Collins |
|
| 返页首 |
|
|
|
|
kokho
进士出身
注册时间: 2006-11-30
帖子: 2642
来自: Singapore
kokho北美枫文集 |
| 发表于: 2007-05-28 11:35:50 发表主题: |
|
|
而英文的意思比较清楚, 就差那么一点，almost; 那么“尽”就是用尽了力气也没达到
我的想法 是这样的 
。。
_________________
乒乓、摄影、诗歌 |
|
| 返页首 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |